homeschooling with dyslexia- barton method

EPISODE 177 | Ever wondered about dyslexia? Have you heard of the Barton method? Dyslexia affects many, but homeschooling offers tailored options. Discovering strengths in dyslexic learners is crucial, with assessments guiding multi-sensory learning approaches. Online and in-person tutoring supports children with learning difficulties, benefiting from passionate advocates in homeschooling settings. Listen in as Janna and her guest, Angela D’Antonio discuss dyslexia, the Barton method and so much more.

ABOUT OUR GUEST | ABOUT OUR GUEST| Angela D’Antonio has been homeschooling her two daughters for over a decade, beginning with preschool and continuing through high school.  From 2019 to 2023, she worked in sales and customer service for a homeschool curriculum company. She now brings her expertise as a sales and marketing consultant for educational supply companies and schools. In addition, Angela serves as a Barton academic tutor and offers personalized services, both in-person and online, to support homeschooling families.  Her true passion lies in assisting families in discovering the perfect curriculum for their children and ensuring that their homeschoolers are well-prepared for college.

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Podcast Transcript

Janna  00:04 Welcome to Homeschool Your Way I'm your host Janna Koch and BookSharks Community Manager. In today's episode, I am once again joined by Angela Marie dD’Antonio. She is now an online Barton-trained dyslexic reading and spelling tutor. Last fall she came on the episode to talk about how she is a working homeschool mom. And this episode is no different. But we're going to be focusing on what she's working on. She's homeschooled her two daughters from kindergarten, and now through high school, and she is excited to share what her new passion is about helping families who have dyslexic students. Let me bring her in. Angela, thanks so much for being here.

Angela  01:15 Hi, it's nice to be here. Good to see you.

Janna  01:17 I love that you want to come back. I want to mention the episode that we did before was Episode 151 about working parents and then your daughter was on the podcast in Episode 147, where she talked about her own struggles with dyslexia.

Angela  01:33 Yeah, Sophia is quite the character she is. But she's been a very big advocate for dyslexic students, which has been fantastic.

Janna  01:41  Would you attribute to your moving into this realm? Partly to her passion?

Angela  01:49 Yeah, absolutely. Actually, she went on your podcast at the same time, she had some events in our community, where she gave talks about dyslexia to people in our community. She applied for grants and got some funding for some free dyslexia assessments in our community. And so working with her on those kind of convinced me to do a little bit more as well. I had already started tutoring and I was tutoring with the Barton method with a few students in my community. And it made such a big difference in those two children's lives that combined with Sophia's advocacy work convinced me to kind of pursue this more directly.

Janna  02:31 I'm excited to have you explain to us what exactly the Barton method is.

Angela  02:38 So the Barton method is a structured literacy program. So right now, that is a big term that you kind of see online. In fact, the International Dyslexia Association just had their 75th anniversary and they are really pushing structured literacy awareness. Mostly what that is structured literacy is just a very systematic and research-based way of presenting the pieces needed to learn how to read properly. It is because of the structure it is particularly good for dyslexic students. So they have a saying that it's beneficial for all but necessary for some. And that's that's how that works. So if it were, you know, taught in the schools, structured literacy would work for all students, but there are certain students that without it really won't learn how to read fully and properly.

Janna  03:29 For those who maybe don't have a clinical definition of dyslexia, I know that before I started really getting good information about what this diagnosis actually is, I kind of just thought it was flipping a couple of letters and maybe kind of reversing some numbers, but there's a lot more to it than that. 

Angela  03:50 Yeah, yeah, there are a lot of common things that show up with dyslexia and I think it is also a reason why it goes undiagnosed. They say that one in five people in our population is actually dyslexic, but only about 5% of those have gotten the diagnosis and the support that they need. So that's also one of the reasons why I do what I do. Things that you see with dyslexia that some people don't attribute to dyslexia. That spelling is a biggie, and so people sometimes just think we need to work more. I bought a lot of homeschool spelling programs over the years before I really knew what was going on with my own child. Another common symptom is actually not being able to memorize math facts. So what you find is a lot of times Dyslexics need to repeat information like that more times than average because their working memory isn't quite the same. The other thing that you find with them though is that if you use a multi-sensory approach, which I think is very common, but if you incorporate more senses, so you know hearing, touch, taste, smell anything that you can add to the learning, Dyslexics will actually hold on to that information better. Once they get more senses involved. There's one girl in particular that I worked with in town and she could not just get numbers one through five, like the number sense the words, what they look like, you know, physically what they are, you know, when beat three beats, like physically. And, finally, it was with using a song that it just clicked, and then suddenly she had it so, so sometimes you just find that they have a harder time with working memory. Another piece to dyslexia, one of the reasons why I think it may go to diagnose a little bit less is about 60% of all kids with ADHD, also have dyslexia. But the ADHD is something that people know a lot more about people. And you sometimes see those signs that a child has ADHD much more so than someone who's kind of just working harder to do their schoolwork, you're not going to see that. And the ADHD symptoms are something that are so noticeable. So about 60% of kids with ADHD also have dyslexia. But it tends to be, you know, covered up by other symptoms.

Janna  06:08 Were you shocked when you started doing the research and seeing these statistics? I mean, dyslexia was a term that I knew I'd heard it, I wasn't unaware that it was out there. But when you start putting those numbers to it, it's astounding, that it's so prevalent, and yet, we really don't even have a good working definition of what it is.

Angela  06:29 Yeah, yeah, it is. I, you know, the 20% was sort of astounding, you know, when you start talking about disability disabilities versus differences, right, if one in five people have dyslexia, then I'm not sure we can call that a disability, because that's such a huge proportion of our population. And also, yeah, I mean, it's kind of shocking. That means there are about 12 to 13 million kids just in the US that are dyslexic, and certainly are not getting diagnosed. Again, people kind of just think it's that BD confusion or Yeah, yeah, or sometimes they think that it's like the letters move on the page. There is sometimes people do have visual issues, but it's completely separate from what dyslexia is, I had a parent whose kids were diagnosed, working with me. And because their kid was good at math, they thought that he couldn't have dyslexia. So there's, there's just a lot of, there's a lot of confusion around what it is, and it because it also can present so differently in different people to that, that people don't really understand. I mean, even you know, I'm in my husband's an educator, and I've been in education for a long time. And our daughter wasn't diagnosed till seventh grade, because she had what they call stealth dyslexia, so really, the answer to that is she just compensated really well. She memorized every word she ever saw. And so it looked like she was reading just fine. And, with dyslexia, you just think it's reading. I mean, but for her, the bigger the bigger signs were, her spelling has always been really terrible. And, the math facts were something that really something that she still to this day isn't, you know, fantastic at. So those other symptoms, you don't relate to dyslexia, because people kind of have this very singular vision of what that is. And I, you know, there are all these efforts now to not diagnose but assess kids early in schools, a lot of states have, you know, passed laws to try to identify these kids, I but I do think we're still very much behind the eight ball and how to get how that's getting done. And whether it's being carried through on sometimes, you know, you have a kid who suspected dyslexia, but you're in a school system that doesn't have the resources, either money or personnel to even give them what they need as well. So it's kind of you know, it's one thing to identify them, but the legislators kind of have to back that up with some funding and staffing too. And, that piece is still a little bit missing from what's going on in the public arena.

Janna  09:15 Well and the beauty of homeschooling is if you can diagnose or find some testing for your children if you suspect something, then you have, you know, so many different avenues of finding resources for your child and may and doing it a different way than then in a system where it's kind of like Sorry, there's no funding for that or we just don't have the staff for that. Like as a parent, we get to then advocate for our children in a different way which is, you know, one of the many pluses of homeschooling. So the Barton method has a tutoring program. Yeah, that is what you're doing. So what what does that look like? 

Angela  09:58 When I first came to Barton, of course, for my own child, and as most parents do, and the nice thing about the Barton method is it is a structured literacy program that follows kind of Orton Gillingham-like methods, it is something that a parent could purchase, and carry out on their own. And so that's how I came to it, of course, because I was a homeschooling parent that I had probably more time than money. And so I got the method, I followed it, I trained in it. And there's, you know, there's another step that you can take, and then you can get certified and you can start teaching other kids, the results for me with Barton have been so stunning. That was what brought me to start to teach it to other kids, because, I've had kids that in six weeks, you know, came back from a parent-teacher conference, and they were the best reader in our class, I had another kid who jumped a grade level in his school-based assessment after just six weeks of working with it. So I mean, what it looks like, it can be a little bit different, it was originally designed to be done in person. Um, there are a lot of tiles and hands-on kinds of manipulatives that you kind of work through. And it's very systematic. You know, you start with, you know, letters and their sounds right, and just the basic vowel sounds that, you know, the short sounds the, you know, and, and those, and it builds piece by piece onto there. So a lot of kids come into the program already knowing some of those pieces. But the important piece of it, is that it is that structured because what you find is there's always a few little bricks missing. So Sal Khan, like during one of his TED Talks talked about kind of building a house, right, and, and when you build the foundation to a house, you know, if you've just missing a few bricks, you know, that's 94%. And so you're like, oh, that's an A, we're good. Let's build the next level, you know, and then you build the next level, and you're missing a few more bricks, but it's like an 86. And you're like, Oh, that's a high B, we're still doing good. And then you put, by the time you put the third floor on that house, the whole thing collapses. Because you can't, you can't build on a shaky foundation. And what is so brilliant to me about the Barton method is that it finds every one of those bricks and allows you to put them back in so that kids can really have that strong foundation to build on to. And that's why I feel that probably works so well for the students I work with.

Janna  12:29 And most parents probably would be unaware of the missing bricks, because kids are so resourceful. And our brains aren't amazing mechanisms, right? Like your daughter, for example, was able to compensate for the missing breaks until she could no longer do it. Right. So I like what you had said before, like so many times, we think, Well, you just need to do more, you just need to work harder. And the truth is, no matter how hard these kids work, it doesn't fill it's not building, it's not putting a brick in, you're actually just like, weighing them down with more work that they actually can't sustain. And then there's tears, and then there's acting out. And then it's like, Oh, I'm not a good homeschool parent, I probably should just put my kid back in public. So I mean, we have we go round and round, right? This is, but this is like the pattern of what happens instead of going. Maybe it isn't you and it isn't me. And we need to look outside of ourselves for some resources and some help. And I think that one thing I see in the homeschool community is we are getting better at asking for help. I think because so much more help is available to homeschool families. Now it was not available in the past. It was like, well, your choose to homeschool, so you're on your own. And now that's not really that's not really the environment that homeschooling is. And so just giving parents permission that like if you suspect anything like it does not hurt to get some evaluation because you're frustrated, your child's frustrated, they're interpreting that they're unintelligent because they can't do why can't I do these simple things and that my other sibling can do these simple things and I just can't get this I must be stupid and it's this whole thing that can be doesn't have to be if we just really are aware that one out of five people need a different way.

Angela  15:19 Yeah, yeah. And you know, and there's all kinds of literature out now, there's two in particular, there's a book called The Dyslexic Advantage. And then there's a new one called this dyslexia that's been put out by this lady Kate Griggs, who's pretty fantastic. And is in this group that's kind of making people realize that dyslexia isn't necessarily a weakness there are these incredible strengths that come along with these weaknesses, right?

 And, and just recognizing that and, and knowing where you know, what they're good at, and allowing kids to excel in those things that they're good at. One of the things you know, one of the things in particular that Dyslexics tend to be really good at, is actually public speaking. So, you know, here's my daughter, she came on your podcast, or she's given presentations to like 60 to 70 people, and she doesn't even bat an eyelash at doing that, like, she carries herself very professionally. And she, you know, and this is not a kid that you would think she struggles in school. Like, you would never think that in a million years, right? Another thing you know, there are, Dyslexics have really great abilities to see things in three dimensions. And so like a lot of engineers, and architects tend to be dyslexic. There was a study that apparently, it's something like 70% of the students at MIT have dyslexia, like engineers, because they're drawn to the field of engineering, because of these kinds of strengths. Something like 50% of entrepreneurs are dyslexic. Because they have just different ways of thinking they can see, like, they have kind of what they call big picture thinking, they can take lots of information and figure out how they're connected and things of that sort. So there, I mean, there are these amazing strengths that also come with it, which is, in some ways, the benefit to, you know, maybe not getting an official diagnosis, but doing an assessment that says, you know, your kid is very likely, or there's a high risk that they are dyslexic, allows you to then see the other pieces and so that you can foster those, right, you know, one of the parents that I talked to recently that this coming to my tutoring business like her daughter has had nothing, but anxiety and frustration in school, and then suddenly found a theater group, which is kind of a common, you know, like Sophia speaking in front of groups, right? And she's like taking off, but here now she's got something where she's getting some positive reinforcement and working with the skills and the strengths that she has, right? 

Anthony Hopkins, you know, he's dyslexic, he's probably one of the best actors that I can think of. Right? So I mean, there's, there's things you know that it's, there are amazing strengths that come with this as well. So, having the knowledge also not only allows you to find, maybe a program that's more appropriate, because I definitely lost lots and lots of time and money over the years that I wish I could get back. And part. And part of what I do now to for me is to try to save parents, that time that I lost again, you know, Sofia's diagnosed in seventh grade, and, and I remember one program, we did 30 minutes every morning for two years, five days a week. And it didn't work. I don't know why I stick admitted to it for two years. But you know, that that happens sometimes in homeschooling too, right? You're I mean, you recognize something's not working. So you try the next thing that sounds good to you. But um, but they don't always work if they're not following kind of the methods that that your particular student needs the most right.

Janna  18:47 And to be stereotypical as homeschooling families, we are giving up something financially in order to be home with our children. And so when we do invest into something, the reason we stick to it for two years is because we understand that that equates that we've taken something away from something else. And by golly, we're going to make it work. We're going to fit that square that circle. If it comes, you know if it's the death of us. 

Angela  19:15 Yeah, yeah. It's like we didn't go on a very big vacation this year, but because of the money that I spent for this program, so I'm gonna make it work. You're right. Yeah, that's.

Janna  19:26 But I mean, this is something that my husband hates it when I say, but the truth is, it is just money. And now that's not to devalue how hard we work for our money but we do not need to sacrifice our mental health or our children's well-being or education by boxing ourselves in when we do make a mistake financially, if we pull that and we got ourselves into the wrong program, so just want to give permission to parents that like yes, I get it but also tried to resell it when I did. Let it go down. Do an Angela, for sure. For sure. So you are now doing this method online and you're offering it to people not only in your physical location but anywhere who can access the internet. So kind of explain how that how that looks when it's online versus in person. 

Angela  20:18 Yeah, so it is kind of lovely. I personally live in kind of a rural, isolated location. And I do like it now that I can tutor people. Like all over the country, sometimes there are people outside the country even so so that's brilliant. Tutoring online, you know, offers a kind of a lot of benefits in that, again, we're not tied to location, even if I go on vacation, sometimes I can keep up with my tutoring. And the same for, like, I have a family who's out of town for spring break, but their kids are still able to get online, which is fantastic. But the system that I've sort of built and find every tutor kind of has different things, but there's a lot of really fun stuff out there. So it's hard to I have an online classroom, it's in a system called Koala Go, that actually looks a little bit like I might be, I won't swear to exactly the game because I'm a little old, but it looks Minecraft-ish. So and what's actually funny is my 14-year-old got into my classroom the other day, so that I could test some things and, and wanted to like build a castle in there, like it's kind of so there's, there's an interactive environment and you can walk into like this room in the castle. And that's where you're gonna have your phone in the game and things of that sort. So there are elements that make it really fun. There is another program that I make games with that I can make them specifically for that child, if there are certain words they need to work on, if there are certain things, there are a couple of kids that are really into whack-a-mole, which is one of the ways I can make games and so I tend to try to tie things to that game a lot because they're, they love it. The other piece is the Barton tiles that people kind of know Barton for like the letter tiles and the phoneme tiles and all of that there is a program online as well, that has those tiles. And what's really brilliant with that is it is actually you get somewhere between five and 10 minutes more learning done in a session using the online system. Mostly because you're not like, futzing with the tiles, like you're not having to return the tiles back into place and, and move them like you do. Kids can manipulate them either with a mouse or you know, with a touchscreen. But you can clear it, you know, with the press of a button instead of having to reset all those titles again and again. So further along, you actually get more and more time back, you get another 10 minutes back. And then and then I have online systems as well, where parents can schedule meetings with me, make up lessons with me, and keep up with what's going on, I can send them information. And then in addition to that, we even have a program where they can practice their reading between sessions. So having an online system, there are just so many things available, that aren't there for an in-person meeting. But it's kind of brilliant, and the kids seem to enjoy it as well, which is really nice.

Barton Method -DyslexiaBarton Method -Dyslexia

Janna  23:09 So right now you've been able to test for lack of a better word, both in person and online. And, and it sounds like I mean, I won't put words in your mouth, but it sounds like you are, Do you prefer one over the other?

Angela  23:24 Ah, the I, I've really enjoyed the online because I think we're more efficient. And I think we get more done. And I really love that my in-person kids, I've started incorporating the games that I use in my online one because they are so effective. It is really fun to see kids and hang out with them. But also, as just a side thing. The exchange of germs that happens with kids coming through my house is something that I think both they and I could probably go without. So I that's another small side benefit to having the online system. Also, you know, if I'm just a little bit sick, I can still teach or if a kid's parent is sick and can't get them somewhere, they can still learn. So it kind of allows you to miss less lessons as well.

Janna  24:10 Yeah, I can definitely see that. Especially now in in 2024. You know, all of those things that I think we lost so much time and so many opportunities that I know I feel the need to be as efficient as possible in all things.

Angela  24:27 I'm not sure I'm capturing them, but I try myself.

Janna  24:32 So what are some of your best success stories? Like what is happening that you're seeing? I know you kind of touched a little bit in the beginning but what what is it that is just growing your passion for not only this method, but also to continue to create these games and this learning environment for students to be able to I don't want to use the word overcome because the way you kind of explained it I don't even know that dyslexia is a deficit in any way, right because it kind of gets superpowers on the other side of it, but it's definitely helping students. So what are you seeing?

Angela  25:04 Oh, you know, one of the kid's parents keeps reporting to me how much more relaxed he is when he leaves our sessions, which, to me is, is so important because stress school can be so stressful for these kids because they're constantly trying to keep up with their peers or cover up that they try not to read in front of the class, things of that sort. So to me, it's been really positive. Also, because, you know, his teacher expressed as well that they're, you know, he's participating more in class and that they can see a difference. I, those two students, again, that I had, the one unit has become the best reader in his class, even though he's dyslexic, which is interesting. And, and his brother, you know, gained gained a year. And that was in very short time. That's, that's been amazing. I had a kid who told me the very first time he showed up to my house that he hates reading. And I gave him my usual you just haven't found the right book. Because my family just loves reading, right? And, and I kind of told him how every one of my family loves talking except me. Right like, and that, you know that we just have to find the one that's really interesting. But about three months later, he brought a book to my house that he was reading for fun. And so to have a kid decide to read for fun on their own is just, that is so rewarding, right? It's just, it's an amazing feeling to kind of introduce kind of the joy that is literature to kids. My family is always been, you know, we listen to books on tape on vacation, sometimes we usually sometimes at dinner, we'll listen to books on tape. So to have other kids learning to enjoy that instead of it just being something that causes them stress or anxiety. It just, it's, it's amazing. It kind of fills my bucket.

Janna  26:47 So for our listeners who don't know what a tape is, what Angela is referring to is audiobooks

Angela  26:55 DId I just show my age?

Janna  26:57 I think we have homeschool parents that don't have never used a tape. So I knew what you were talking about. But I want to be sensitive to those newer generations coming in for sure. You know, one thing that you mentioned that I thought a lot of parents may not even be aware of. You had said one of your students was stressed about school and, and, you know, comparing himself to his peers. I had the fortune of working with a family when I was homeschooling in my high school years. And they had a lot of kids and to know that that kind of stuff happens within family dynamics as well. You know, if there's, if there's, you know, comparison is just part of human nature, right? And Big Brother, Big Sister, you look up to somebody, and you don't you don't want to stumble, you don't want to seem like you don't know what you don't know. And I know having twins, that one of my twins was really struggling with reading. I had no idea what it was when we pulled her out of public schooling. It was never on any of her progress reports. It was no one had a clue. And so when I brought her home, and I saw her I'm like, why? What's taking so long, which immediately she interpreted, I'm a bad reader. I must be dumb my sister can get through books quicker. We're on the same level, we're the same age. But why is she flying through them? And I'm not. And so it's we never would have addressed it had I not visually been aware of it because it was never brought up to us before. So I do think sometimes with Homeschool families, you know, that stuff is still there, like not wanting to read out loud, even in front of your family, like as much as you want to create safe space. We're still humans, and none of us want to look like we don't know what we're doing. And so I don't want you to notice that oh, well, that happens in public school. I know what happens right in your home, whether you're not a bad parent, if you're unaware of it. But I do think that if we know better, we can do better. And to just say like, you know that that happens, even at home.

Angela  28:57 Yeah, totally. Yeah. And that's, you know, and that's why it is so important in some ways to kind of work on the strengths that your children have and to follow their interests, which are things that you can do in homeschooling that you cannot that don't happen in the public school, right? Allowing your kids to take classes about whatever is really interesting to them, so that they can have something that they find, you know, interesting and something that they can have success at right? I have one daughter who likes to win statewide math contests, right? And then my dyslexic daughter is still having a hard time with the multiplication facts right? So that's a pretty big difference.

Janna  29:37 But the irony is that the same daughter will get up in front of people and present without skipping a beat. And the math facts girl does not want to be it she's like, doesn't want to draw attention to herself, right?  

Angela  29:51 Okay. No, she knows. Absolutely, yeah, no, she's She fulfills all those stereotypes of being a math nerd very much. Yeah, she would rather work alone and not be looked at. Yeah, but yeah, and again, my dyslexic daughter is really, really into mythology and Greek and Roman literature and things that that you would think were very advanced for her age, but because it's her interest she, she reads it and she studies it and she knows it better than just about anyone. I've seen her actually get into it with a couple of professors about some, some old like Greek writer one time, and we ended up Googling, and she was the one that was right. So we all have our things.

Janna  30:33 That's, that's for sure. I love those superpowers. So for families who are listening, who are like, Man, I don't I maybe my child is dyslexic, I don't know, like, what are some suggestions you would have for families who are starting to wonder if maybe they need to do something more for their children.

Angela  30:52 So there is an online dyslexia assessment, that is available to families. So you can purchase it as an individual. My daughter, when she took the assessment, it was really what opened our eyes to what was going on watching her take the assessment as there are nine sections of the test, and every time we got to a section, I was like sitting there and I was like, Oh, she can't do that. Oh, she can't do that either. Like every it literally pinpointed exactly the things that show up in dyslexia, it is very well regarded. It has a very high-reliability rating. It's over 92% reliable. And it is just available online to anyone who wants to run it on their child. It's also really great because you kind of just play it on an iPad. For younger kids. There's like a fox that tells it feels like games. I've actually sat with some younger kids while they've done the test. And it feels to them for the most part like they're playing games, but it really does assess kind of the the different areas where Dyslexics have strengths or weaknesses. So, so I would I really would recommend that mostly because it worked so well for my family. The other thing that is available, you know, I of course have my own business online, dyslexia reading, I do offer free reading assessments online. So you can come on my website, sign up, and I am happy to do a reading assessment with your kid. And then if there are a lot of signs during that reading assessment, I will probably then kind of refer you to that neuro-learning assessment to get some more information. But that's that's, to me is the best assessment that's out there. And it's just readily available. And I love that even if you live in, you know, rural mountains like I do, Your child can still have access to it as long as you have internet.

Janna  32:40 Yeah, we've come a long way. We have come so far in all of these things. Well, before we go, we always ask for a homeschool hack. So hopefully you have a homeschool hack, maybe something that you've used with your dyslexic daughter, or something that can help our families. As we sign off this podcast episode.

Angela  33:00 I have to one or the other. The first homeschool hack that it took me years to discover. But just one day with my daughter who's dyslexic is increasing the whitespace on her paper makes a huge difference. So certainly for books, you know, the nice thing with a Kindle now is you can change the font, you can make it bigger, but you can also and not everybody knows this add more whitespace so you can space out the lines or add more around it that really helps her to focus better. We also found just doing math on a blank sheet of paper was so much easier to her. Like even just the lines and trying to keep everything really was difficult for her to focus on and so that really made a difference and it was such an easy and easy thing to adjust. 

The other big one that I have for homeschooling is just that multi-sensory learning. So if you find that you're butting up against a wall over something, you know, one individual fact one letter writing the writing and asks which is particularly hard. Just start thinking of different senses that you can incorporate so writing that ‘S’ in shaving cream or in the sand, making that ‘s’ out of bread, and like baking bread that day. But add songs to are really catchy right I am, I still only know which months have 30 days in it because of a song I learned as a child. And every time I have to figure it out, I stick it in my head. So those are the kinds of things that make learning stick. And especially if you have a dyslexic child, the more things that you can connect to the learning, the more it will help them to maintain that knowledge.

Janna  34:36 Well that is wonderful. I am personally so grateful for songs. It helped me learn so many things as a kid and even as an adult. I still love the songs. So I love that tool in particular. Angela thank you so much for coming on again. Thank you for sharing not only your passion but your expertise in this area as you continue to grow in knowledge and helping families not only in your community, but now really worldwide. We will have all of your links in the show notes so people can check out your online tutoring website and get some assessments if necessary. So thank you so much for taking the time to talk with us today.

Angela  35:16 It's awesome. Thank you, Janna. It's good to see you.

Janna  35:19 Thank you guys. Until next time, bye-bye.