Homeschool Encouragement

EPOISODE 152| A lazy morning with grateful children who happily apply themselves to their studies while you enjoy having them all under one roof.  

Sound idyllic? We all want that type of homeschool day but reality is much different. That’s not to say your idyllic homeschool days won’t happen but how do you cope with the days in between? Homeschooling is demanding, it's not some picture-perfect thing that magically happens, it takes hard work. Join Janna and her guest, Gretchen from Demme Learning as they discuss ‘October flats’ as something that can happen anytime in your homeschool journey.

ABOUT OUR GUEST | Gretchen Roe has 21 years of home education experience with her six children, four of whom are now college graduates. With a degree in Psychology and Child Development, she has spent the last 19 years in positions of homeschool advocacy, having a special bond with families of children who have to work harder to learn. A former business owner, she has served on a variety of nonprofit boards. A Consultative Sales Representative with Demme Learning since 2014, Gretchen loves the outdoors, all things furry, and is in the process of perfecting backyard chicken raising, beekeeping, and gardening skills.

Janna  00:02: Welcome to Homeschool Your Way I'm your host Janna Koch, and BookShark’s Community Manager. In this episode, my guest Gretchen Roe from Demme Learning is going to come on today and just really encourage you that you made a good choice. That you're doing a good job. Hopefully, we can kind of share some of our own experiences. And just let you guys know that you're on the right track. So let me bring Gretchen in. Hi, Gretchen. See Gretchen's already laughing so we know this is going to be a really good time together. Gretchen, Why don't you go ahead and just introduce yourself to those who maybe don't know who you are?

Gretchen  01:12: Sure, I am your counterpart at Demme Learning. I'm Demme Learning's Community Relations Coordinator. I'm a homeschooling mother of six graduated the last one in June of this year and for 21 years, I wouldn't have traded for anything. But some of those days, man, they lasted forever, they really felt like they did. So when you asked me to talk about stepping into a new experience and how it feels when the shine has worn off. I thought oh, I can speak to that.

Janna  01:43: It's, it's so amazing. When you have an idea. I don't know, as a parent, as a human, I really tried to remind homeschool parents that you are still a person, you are not just a homeschool parent, you're not just a parent, you're not just a spouse, like to remember who you are. But you get really excited about this new venture, and you're on this journey. And then you get all the stuff and the overwhelm comes in. And then you feel like you have a handle on it and you get excited again. And then just the routine of reality starts to set in. And I think that's where we find ourselves in October, which is was coined October Flats. I'd never heard of it before until last year. And I really like the term because it does kind of help put verbiage to what you're feeling in this phase of homeschooling.

Gretchen  02:34: Yes, it really does. And, you know, a lot of times when we begin the homeschooling journey, we have aspirations, we have ideas. My idea of my homeschooling journey was going to be sitting on the sofa with my kids doing read-alouds, while bread baked in the oven. I don't think that happened one single day in 21 years. But again, I wouldn't have traded it. It wasn't what I expected. But it was much more than what I expected. When I was able to set my expectations aside.

Janna  03:07: I know you and I have talked before and I've encouraged people before that homeschooling really is parenting on steroids. It is this 24/7 near held up to my face, all of my character defects are being either reflected in my children's actions, or words, or they're letting me know what I could be doing differently because we're together all of the time.

Gretchen  03:33: Yes, I have to laugh because I made the mistake of saying in front of one of my kids at one point in time is this nature or nurture? And that phrase came back to haunt me because sometimes I would say why did you do that? And they would say, ‘I don't know. Is it nature or nurture Mom?’ So you just don't always know. But that reflection of us in them also is a joyful experience as well, to watch them grow and change I wouldn't have I wouldn't have traded the privilege of watching my kids grow up for anything. And that was really cool.

Janna  04:11: I have yet to find a homeschooling manual that says ‘Be prepared to be questioned about everything at all times by any age child that you have produced.’

Gretchen  04:24: Yes. Yeah, I get it. It's funny that you should say that because I thought of this yesterday. One of my children said, at the age of five to me, I had done something and I went, Oh, that didn't work out. Right. And she said, Well, you're the adult. Why didn't you figure that out first? Like, terrific. Awesome. Can't wait. This is going to be fun. And she's still fun at 29. So you know I think one of the things, Janna that when we hit October Flats that it's important for us to remember is we're not trying to reproduce school at home. If we wanted, what the schools had, we wouldn't have taken our kids out of the schools and brought them home. And so, if we as adults, particularly adults who maybe had a public school experience, or something different than what you're trying to craft for your children can set aside those presuppositions. It's a huge game-changer.

Janna  05:26: Yeah. And I think allowing yourself to be honest and have permission to say, you just don't know what you don't know. You've never been in this situation before. This is Yes, you've parented. Yes, you have taught your children, but you haven't homeschooled in, you only have a reference point or lens, excuse me, from what you have experienced. So trying to navigate this journey, and you have a map, but you've never been to the destination, it requires a lot of grace for yourself and for your children.

Gretchen  06:04: It does indeed, and you know, that allows me to tell you my favorite phrase, which is keep the thing, the thing. If you're working on reading, don't worry about the dishes. Don't worry about the fact that the dog is standing by the back door wanting to go out and explore. Don't worry about the fact that you haven't planned dinner yet. Keep yourself focused on one thing at a time, maybe learn to be more proactive, because I know kids don't wait. And it's a lot harder to reel them back in than being ahead of them as far as the game is concerned. So if I can offer a piece of advice, if the October Flats and you're really struggling, then what I want to encourage you to do is to take a step back and start planning better, just planning a little bit more frequently what you're trying to do so that your kids aren't waiting on you. Take a look at what's coming tomorrow, Thursday, Friday, you know, Friday, Monday, next week, and be prepared ahead of time, so that you're not catching, what they're doing, as they're catching what they're doing. I think that makes a lot of difference for kids.

Janna  07:24: Being present, and in the moment is something that is really difficult. I think in this day and age where we applaud multitasking, where we say if you can do three things at once, surely you can do five things at once. And then when we're juggling all of these things, and you're trying to homeschool, but you're you know you're not present. And in the moment, it really does put stress and pressure on you as a parent. And it makes it not enjoyable. It really does. And you know, one of the things I think I wished I'd learned earlier is that I could learn right alongside my kids.

Gretchen  08:04: I'm not a mathematician irony that I happen to work for the publishers of math, UC. But math is probably my weakest subject. And I know I'm willing to admit that because I know that there are so many more out there like me. But it was hard for me to admit to my children, Gee, I don't know this, what a powerful experience to say, I don't know this yet. Let me come alongside you. And let's learn together. That's a huge game-changer for your kids. To be able to understand that learning doesn't always happen with a book at a table. learning can happen everywhere. And if we can relax a little bit, then that allows them to relax as well.

Janna  08:46: That flows beautifully into this idea of trusting the process, the process of learning the process of homeschooling, it is just its own dynamic. It's its own entity. And when you're first learning something new, you know, it's like anything when you're cooking, when you're baking when you're painting, I don't know, it's like, when you start it, you're like this doesn't look right. This doesn't taste right. This is not going to turn out. But I mean, think about baking, like you put something that's almost liquefied in the oven, and then you hope it's going to like hope this turns out, right? But if you've done the directions, and you have done your part, then you just kind of sit back and you get to trust that the process is happening, even though it doesn't feel great all the time.

Gretchen 05:26: Yeah.

Janna 05:27 And I think allowing yourself to be honest and have permission to say, you just don't know what you don't know. You've never been in this situation before. This is Yes, you've parented. Yes, you have taught your children, but you haven't homeschooled in, you only have a reference point or lens, excuse me, from what you have experienced. So trying to navigate this journey, and you have a map, but you've never been to the destination, it requires a lot of grace for yourself and for your children.

Gretchen  06:04: It does indeed, and you know, that allows me to tell you my favorite phrase, which is keep the thing, the thing. If you're working on reading, don't worry about the dishes. Don't worry about the fact that the dog is standing by the back door wanting to go out and explore. Don't worry about the fact that you haven't planned dinner yet. Keep yourself focused on one thing at a time, maybe learn to be more proactive, because I know kids don't wait. And it's a lot harder to reel them back in than being ahead of them as far as the game is concerned. So if I can offer a piece of advice, if the October Flats and you're really struggling, then what I want to encourage you to do is to take a step back and start planning better, just planning a little bit more frequently what you're trying to do so that your kids aren't waiting on you. Take a look at what's coming tomorrow, Thursday, Friday, you know, Friday, Monday, next week, and be prepared ahead of time, so that you're not catching, what they're doing, as they're catching what they're doing. I think that makes a lot of difference for kids.

Janna  07:24: Being present, and in the moment is something that is really difficult. I think in this day and age where we applaud multitasking, where we say if you can do three things at once, surely you can do five things at once. And then when we're juggling all of these things, and you're trying to homeschool, but you're you know you're not present. And in the moment, it really does put stress and pressure on you as a parent. And it makes it not enjoyable. It really does. And you know, one of the things I think I wished I'd learned earlier is that I could learn right alongside my kids.

Gretchen  08:04: I'm not a mathematician irony that I happen to work for the publishers of math, UC. But math is probably my weakest subject. And I know I'm willing to admit that because I know that there are so many more out there like me. But it was hard for me to admit to my children, Gee, I don't know this, what a powerful experience to say, I don't know this yet. Let me come alongside you. And let's learn together. That's a huge game-changer for your kids. To be able to understand that learning doesn't always happen with a book at a table. learning can happen everywhere. And if we can relax a little bit, then that allows them to relax as well.

Janna  08:46: That flows beautifully into this idea of trusting the process, the process of learning the process of homeschooling, it is just its own dynamic. It's its own entity. And when you're first learning something new, you know, it's like anything when you're cooking, when you're baking when you're painting, I don't know, it's like, when you start it, you're like this doesn't look right. This doesn't taste right. This is not going to turn out. But I mean, think about baking, like you put something that's almost liquefied in the oven, and then you hope it's going to like hope this turns out, right? But if you've done the directions, and you have done your part, then you just kind of sit back and you get to trust that the process is happening, even though it doesn't feel great all the time.

Gretchen  09:36: Right. Right. And I think that's one of the things that we are such a results-driven society. We want to see the fruits of our efforts on Friday when we start on Monday. And sometimes in the homeschool game. It's a long journey before you start to see the fruits of your efforts. It makes a difference and just staying engaged and positive, I think if we can keep our attitudes in check, it's a lot easier for kids to keep their attitudes in check.

Janna  10:07: It's really the difference between social media and farming. So social media, you expect an immediate result, you're checking how many reels, how many likes did my reel get, or how many people liked my post. Or what were the comments? It's an immediate, but in farming, I mean, I'm not really good at gardening. But I know it takes a while, like several weeks before anything even starts to be visible above the soil. Right?

Gretchen  10:35: Right. And, you know, I love that analogy. But I'm laughing because I can kill pothos, I mean, the only plant in my office happens to be as silk plant. But since the only one I can't kill, but I think that if we can picture ourselves as the gardeners, we're sowing that seed in our kids. were sowing the seed of the desire to learn and grow academically, I think it makes a tremendous amount of difference. And I know that you had said that you could talk to people in the community who were just overwhelmed with all the things that were available for them to do. And I think one of the greatest lessons of a homeschool experience learning, that you really are in charge, you don't have to do all of it. You have to do what is best for your children. And that might be different than what's best for your children.

Janna  11:32: Gretchen, you had sent me a clip of I believe he was an author, and researcher. And he really talked about as educators being a shepherd versus an engineer. So a shepherd guides, they pick the pasture that has nutrients they protect from harm, versus an engineer is like creating and they're designing and they're controlling outcomes. And I think as new homeschool parents, and veteran homeschool parents, we need to be reminded that it is our job to guide learning, because we are not the experts, our kids will let us know immediately that that is the case. I have cons I have one who constantly says And what's your degree again, and that bless her she's, she's still alive today. But it's that kind of it's that kind of idea that like yeah, I don't I don't know everything. Kids are good at calling out imposter syndrome, right? Like you come in there as a No at all. And that's so I feel like contrary to how parenting was when I was raised, it was like we didn't question our parents is like, we just knew what they said. And whether it made sense or not. We did it. But this new generation is like be prepared to be questioned and come alongside your kid and just be honest. And I yeah, I don't know. Because I'm, I have wisdom. I have knowledge in my years. I do know what I'm talking about. But I'm not trying to control you. I'm not trying to create you. I'm here to guide you. And really that sense of peace can come in then in your home school.

Gretchen  13:05:  Yeah, I think one of the things that we have a misapprehension about, and maybe this is maybe not so much my generation. But the generation of parents who are, as my German dad would say, in the mitten draining of it right now is we've been fed a myth that if we listen to classical music, if we do all the right things, if we make this combination lock work, then our kids, everything will be wonderful. And that's not really the truth. So if you can step back from that control mentality, and instead look at it more as a collaborative mentality, I think it becomes easier. I laugh because my husband and I are both beekeepers. And if you took a phrase, out of our time in the Bee yard together all summer, the most frequent phrase you would hear was, Well, that didn't work. And that's a little bit of what we're talking about here with homeschooling, you're going to find your footing, you're going to do things that didn't turn out, well. Don't should on yourself, don't say, well, I should have done this. Well, I should have done that. You made the best decision at the time with the information you had to hand and you'll learn something in the process. And if we're learning something, then it's still worth it.

Gretchen  19:04: Right. And you know, that's hard, because we want it now we want to be able to have it unpacked for us laid out in front of us, and be able to go 1234 Yes, I've got everything done. And a little bit of that comes with learning who your kids are. And I'm gonna say something that sounds kind of wild, but I think it makes a tremendous difference. You don't really know who your kids are yet. If you're just beginning the homeschool journey, particularly if you're bringing kids out of a public or private school environment. You need to allow one to two months for every year they've been in school for them to unbuckle the rigors of what they've learned and figure out how they learn best. So this first year, particularly if you're new to the homeschooling journey might all be about exploration of learning who they are and learning who you are with them in a different context, I think it makes all the difference in the world when we can be that encouraging parent. Now, I wasn't always that encouraging parent because we all live in reality. And there are days when the milk hits the floor, and there are phrases that fly but being able to keep those accounts short, and come to the end of the day and say I loved what we did today, and encourage your kids I think makes all the difference in the world.

Janna  20:32: Flexibility. I just keep hearing about flexibility and, and it's not so much that your kids need to be flexible. Because guess what, kids are flexible.  They're moldable they are constantly changing. Right? Like so when you said Get to know your kids. I'm like, spoiler alert, as soon as you do, they're gonna throw you for a loop anyways, but the process be flexible. Know what worked yesterday, you had like this great homeschool day yesterday, and the birds were chirping as you opened the door. But then, you know, but then the next day, you're like, Okay, well, how do I recreate that? It's almost like you're staging it. And it's not gonna happen. It just isn't because the universe, I don't know, it's not on purpose. But it just is not typical.

Gretchen  21:18: I mean, I think I think the underlying theme of everything that we have said here is to have something I don't possess, which is a little bit of patience in the process, just like you said, trust that it's all going to work together for good. I had no intention of homeschooling long term, I was only going to homeschool for the last quarter of my eldest daughter's third-grade year. And then we ended up homeschooling one year at a time for 21 years in a row. I wouldn't have traded that time for anything. But if I had, if you had told me in that first nine weeks, that I was going to do that 21 years, kind of run screaming for the hills because that just sounded unbelievably daunting.

Janna  22:06: Yeah, one of our community members commented, oh, my goodness, yes, homeschooling taught me so much about each child, and how they function and learn. Not just that they were getting by in the mass school system. Like, it is amazing that you don't even again, but you don't know what you don't know. Just be willing to know. I don't know I have no, I'm making it sound so simple. Like, oh, come on, Jana. You know, I am in my eighth year, and I am also a homeschool graduate. So I know that the things that we tend to stress over aren't the things that really matter. And on the other side of it, I turned out all right, right. Gretchen I mean, I'm gainfully employed, I guess we're gonna measure it by all those things. Yeah. I believe boy, I enjoy my job. I mean, I was reluctant to homeschool my own children. But now I am getting thank yous from my daughters who are getting ready to graduate high school with a college and associate's degree, and again, my book is going to be titled ‘In Spite of Me’. So creating a safe space just for honesty, to receive it and to give it and to just, you know, sometimes throw your hands up and say, I don't know. But we're gonna figure it out. 

Gretchen  23:42: Right. Right. And you know, one of the things I think that's really important because I used it, I didn't use BookShark, but it used a similar curriculum, where they were you put together, here's how your day is going to work. But the books are not the Masters, you're the master of the experience. So it's up to you to craft it in a way that makes sense to you. It doesn't mean that you have to do everything. And I'm singing to the choir here because I was that person using a classical curriculum for 17 years. My kids were phenomenally well-educated. But looking back on that, I can also tell you, that we could have done half as much academically, and they would have been equally well-educated.

Janna  24:17: I think that as well said, there's so much truth in that. Now, if we can just get people to sit in that for a moment and really soak that in and know that education is more than the rigor. It really is developing the whole child. And again, coming from a parent who homeschooled and has a master's degree homeschooled children and they're graduating with, you know, a degree. There's, it's not to say that the academics aren't important. They are important, but don't let them be the driving force of what's going on because your child is more than just learning their ABCs

Gretchen  24:55: Absolutely. And, you know, really what we should be about is learning how to learn, not learning what to learn. And a lot of the academics now in public and private education are information-driven. And you and I have talked about this, we live in a world where we have more information at our fingertips than our parents had in the entirety of their lives. And it's hard to sort the important from the non-important. So if you can do as you said, Jan, and just sit with it for a little bit and think about, what do I want here? I want literate children. And my question, my answer to that question for yours was, I want literate children who are adults who can take care of themselves and don't live with me. And you know what, I still have three of my children at home, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. And they're all adults, I am blessed to be able to have that, and have them here with me. But if you'd have told me, that's what I would have now, some 15 16-18 years ago, I don't think I would have believed you.

Janna  26:08: Yeah, there is there is something about gaining just the time perspective, we know Hindsight is 2020. And we have to all roll our eyes, of course, we know that. But we kind of have to remind ourselves that like, you have to go through it before you can turn around and have perspective about it. And so that circles back to trusting the process. Just know that you've chosen a curriculum for the year that you're working through it there, you know, you're doing what you can each day and enjoying your children in the process. You do really want to help your kids love lifelong learning. Perfect example. I was scrolling through social media. For my job, I promise I don't particularly care for social media personally. And I came across this clip, and I, I was like, taken aback. I was like, Oh, my gosh. And immediately I stopped, and I did a little research. And I'm like, This clip is actually from four years ago. So should I really be getting emotionally involved with this right now when it's being presented as present? But because I stopped and did a little research, it's actually four years old. And it's maybe not representing the situation clearly right now. That's a homeschool win people! That is critical thinking, stopping for a moment, and getting outside of my emotions, because that's what media and all these things want to do to us. And it is a big part of our children's lives or will become a big part of our children's lives because that's the age that we live in. So teaching our kids how to process that, I think, is going to be a lifesaver in so many things outside of academia.

Gretchen  27:53: Absolutely. And, you know, to be able to model that to model that teachable moment to go, Ooh, this is information, maybe I need to learn something more about it. I didn't homeschool in the age of Mother Google. But man, I love to be able to sit down, you know, and have, we had a dinner table discussion the other night, and it was about something to do with the solar system. And each one of my kids had a different opinion. And we ended up in an hour-long discussion talking about something that had historical context. And each one of them had a different take on that. And so here's where I want to encourage your parents, if you're just in the beginning process, you're going to have the opportunity to watch your kids develop their personalities, to grow, to blossom to change. And it is a humbling experience because sometimes you're going to see yourself reflected there and it's not fun. But on the whole is worth every step of the journey. You know, there are no books out there that tell you that it's harder to parent adult kids than it is to parent small people.

Janna  29:04: No, don't burst the bubble. Gretchen, just leave that for another episode, please. Nature versus Nurture?

Gretchen  29:13: Well, and you know, Janna, one thing that we haven't mentioned here, but I think is really important is because of the age of technology, it's easy for us to live in a silo and think we're the only ones experiencing something and there is no connectivity with other people. And I think one of the things that helped me homeschool along the way was I had friends who were in the trenches alongside me, and something weird would happen and I would call and say okay, I need five minutes to vent. And then my friend at the end of that five minutes would say, you know, that happened to us in our household two weeks ago. And having that connectivity, that community that fellowship, that understanding of someone else, to be able to know where you are was absolutely invaluable. And I'm really going to throw a monkey wrench in the works here, I'm going to say that's probably not your spouse. And the reason is, if you are a mother homeschooling, your husband wants to fix it for you. And if you're a dad, homeschooling, your wife wants peace in the family. And so finding connectivity, who is someone who is alongside you, but not so emotionally connected to the outcome makes a tremendous amount of difference.

Janna  30:40: Gretchen, thank you so much for being on our BootCamp today. I really appreciate you just bringing some humor and some wisdom and kind of that perspective from the other side that a lot of us have yet to achieve. So thank you so much.

Gretchen  30:55: Well, let me just say to your parents, that this is the most joyful journey for which you don't see the end of the journey for a very long time. And I wouldn't trade that for anything. So enjoy your kids, because man, they grow up way too fast. 

Janna  31:11: And that's another thing, you're not going to feel it until that happens. So just trust us when we say there, you will hit a point where it will start to zoom by. I'm gonna let you guys go. Thank you so much for being here. Until next time. Take care. Bye-bye.